Furthermore… the Trustee board has no *explicit* power to veto a motion before it is proposed to a General Meeting. They also have a responsibility to “promote the interests of its membership in those economic, social and welfare issues which have an effect on education or upon the position of its membership in society”. Proposals for motions affecting resources must be submitted to the Trustee Board, but it is the Rules and Revisions Committee that decide their suitability and they (depending on your interpretation) may only reject motions based on their constitutionality and legality.

If questions are raised as to the interpretation of the relevant bits of constitution then it is also the Rules and Revisions Committee’s job to interpret the constitution in the first instance.

References:
Article 5.
Article 12.3.
Schedule 1.5.2.
Schedule 1.5.4.
Schedule 10.13.1
Article 26.1.

People should know by now my distaste for anonymous posting – and since the minutes are open and not closed for this specific issue, theoretically any student is allowed to view them. I don’t know what they say because I haven’t looked them up but I’m sure they are detailed enough to show the various points that were made in discussion. Other than that it’s a little pointless what’s said because the decision has already been made

Thanks for not pretending to be me though, Jose Rason

I believe as a student, like it or not, you are unable to get away from NUS association. The fact is, the NUS is the most recognised organisation associated with students. As such, whether or not you’re actually a member, to a large majority of people the NUS stands for the student body of Britain.

By having the logo on the ‘duck’ card, I do not mean to say that this would make a holder a de facto member of the NUS.

For all intents and purposes, the use of this logo would merely be to legitamise the ‘duck’ card to those least aware of students lives. Indeed, you could even get small print somewhere stating the card is recognised by the NUS as a real form of Identification for students, but does not mean the holder is a membere of the Union.

This would improve the validity issue of the ‘duck’ card and, I believe, offer those not wanting to associate with the NUS an alternative student ID to their recognised cards.

Equally, as has been pointed out, it would probably also help holders gain access to the discounts actual NUS cards supposedly offeer you. Obviously, this isn’t what the NUS or YUSU would want; preferring Students get the £10 Extra card, but I imagine it would happen.

That’s not the reason I would include the NUS logo somewhere on an improved ‘duck’ card.

It’s purely as a means of validating what is – a present – an easily rejected form of Student ID.

Obviously, having the NUS logo prevents total disassociation from the organisation. However, until anyone can suggest an alternative organisation that would equally validate a student ID card, I believe including the NUS logo is the best option.

For better or for worse YUSU is part of the NUS, so surely it makes sense to take advantage of our membership to the NUS and the nationally recognised brand the NUS has.

You say that you don’t want a student ID that ‘identifies’ the stduent with the NUS yet your solution is to put the NUS logo on the card.

Also, what would happen if YUSU were to leave the NUS? We wouldn’t be able to use the logo. Also if any student were to decline YUSU membership, they would not be entitled to use the NUS logo on their card.

Working with the uni AND local/national retailers is definitely the best route to take.

As you rightly point out, NUS approval is not universal at York. As such, the Uni card presents the best means of offering Students, student ID while not necessarily identifying them with, or helping to finance, the NUS.

The current Uni Cards are not fit for purpose as ID. But this can easily be changed.

An NUS logo would verify it is a legitamet Student card without having to make them part of the actual Union, while a course expiration date will add accuracy to identify the person as a student. Futher, the card should include your date of birth (to prove you are over 18, for instance).

Making the card renewable annually for a small charge (50p – if NUS card costs 5.5p surely 50p would cover it?) would then allow the card to remain accurate to the holders current student status, without leaving the University out of pocket.

You are right, NUS Extra and the York Uni cards aren’t appropriate Student ID, while the NUS card being the main choice from the Union forces students to join.

A better University card seems to me to be the best, and easiest, resolution to this matter.

The Democracy card itself clearly states that it is also to be used to prove membership (it actually says this on the back of the card) and the motion was about introducing an identity card, of which the Democracy card does just as well as the duck card, but with the added benefit of being a nationally recognised brand. Places that wouldn’t accept my York card whilst I was on placement *would* accept a Democracy card for proof of student ID (with a strategically placed finger covering the expiry date). The trustee board decision has robbed those students at the University of York who are on sandwich courses, placements, etc, from being able to benefit from a nationally recognisable identity card without having to purchase a discount card.

The motion (which should be obvious to everyone who reads it in my comment above) never mentioned reintroducing the Democracy card for voting purposes, just for identity purposes.

I was at the trustee board meeting; the debate largely centred around the costs (specifically the resource costs) of reintroducing the Democracy card, the purpose was only mentioned briefly, because the Trustee board has presumably read the motion and saw it was about reintroducing the card for identity purposes.

Firstly, this is a YUSU decision, not a case of NUS imposing anything on York. So don’t blame NUS.

Secondly, in my first year (05-06) Nat Thwaites-McGowan and Micky Armstrong proposed a motion to UGM to change YUSU policy form opposition to NUS Extra cards, to support for their introduction. It passed 200 – 97 and is still active policy.

That policy can be read here:

http://www.yusu.org/union/motion/29/

Make of the current policy what you will.

Finally, Extra cards were not so much introduced to save the NUS financially after “years of waste”, as to provide a reliable stream of income to students’ unions, some of which had faced serious financial problems. That is why £4 from each sale goes directly to the students’ union. Apparently, in the ’90s, students unions were rolling in cash and spent it all on bigger and better (and sometimes badly thought through) campus bars and nightclubs. But over the last 10 years, students have been drinking less in campus bars largely thanks to increased alcohol prices and a trend to buy drinks from supermarkets and drink them at home / in halls. This led to big problems for many SUs, and at least one went bankrupt. (Somewhere like Northumbria?) NUS Extra, though billed as supporting NUS finances, was in large part about providing an additional steady income source for SUs, ensuring they weren’t too dependent on bar income.

It seems the way to go now is to attempt to propose a motion to mandate YUSU to campaign the University to move the duck card into a more acceptable form of ID (but then again the Trustee board may decide that such an ID would interfere with NUS Extra and therefore block the motion again, *sigh*)

nevertheless, i still think it’s the university card that’s the problem – some places don’t even accept nus extra as valid id if they’re not one of the advertised discounters, then they don’t accept the york card because it’s “out of date”

but as i said in my first comment there are problems with putting a 3-year period on the card, and branding it with an nus logo still doesn’t solve the time validity issue, therefore the best and only solution is for the uni to issue new cards every year like most others do… but of course, that comes at a cost

The motion, if approved by the trustee board, would have gone forward to vote at a YUSU UGM, not an NUS national conference or anything (I assume you meant the NUS by ‘entire union’). The NUS wouldn’t have to do anything, it’s a purely York related matter.

* The NUS Extra card is value for money for some, but not every student at York
* Students at the University of York want a nationally recognised identity card without necessarily paying for an NUS Extra discount card.

sorry, wasn’t this a motion introduced to a yusu body? why would the entire union collectively approve a motion that is focused primarily on the interests of students at one university? surely this just proves my point that the best solution would be one from within..

The reason I proposed NUS Democracy as the form of the identity card is because the NUS brand is nationally recognised, the only other brand recognised anywhere near as much is the ISIC but that would incur even higher costs to the Union as the physical card costs are more like £6, rather than 5.5 pence.

From the back of the NUS Democracy card:

“This card is proof of your membership of your students’ union and the National Union of Students.”

Seems pretty clear to me that identification is an important part of the NUS Democracy card.

I’ve included the motion below for reference. From the very beginning I’ve made it clear that this is about identification, and that I propose NUS Democracy to be best identity card available to us.

“A free, nationally recognised student card for York”

THIS UNION NOTES

* YUSU last issued Union identity cards without cost in the academic year 2006/2007 in the form of NUS Democracy cards alongside the NUS Extra scheme, before moving to complete online voting
* University of York cards are not globally recognised and have no expiration dates, causing problems in particular for students when not in York (e.g., students on sandwich courses, visiting other towns and cities, and returning home for the holidays)
* The recent NUS affiliation referendum showing that student approval of the NUS is not universal at York
* The NUS Extra scheme no longer incorporates the ISIC identity scheme
* In the year 2006/2007, the NUS lost £18,000 on the NUS Extra scheme

THIS UNION BELIEVES

* The NUS Extra card is value for money for some, but not every student at York
* Students at the University of York want a nationally recognised identity card without necessarily paying for an NUS Extra discount card.

THIS UNION RESOLVES

* To immediately re-introduce NUS Democracy to students wishing to identify themselves as a student but not wishing to take advantage of the discounts offered by NUS Extra.